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Star Wars Movies and Positivity Thread


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#1941 Sephsekla

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 01:33 AM

So many people are criticising the film because

Spoiler

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Except cancelling Firefly. Because that's just not cool.

#1942 Ocelot

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 04:25 AM

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So many people are criticising the film because

Spoiler

 

Some of the complaints I've read so far I can totally understand, but some of them make me feel like Disney secretly sent out two entirely different movies named 'The Last Jedi' to cinemas because I have no idea what people are talking about  :P

 

btw, JJ's first draft for Episode IX has leaked:

 

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#1943 Goldy

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 07:13 AM

 

 

btw, JJ's first draft for Episode IX has leaked:

 

That's my worry is that JJ will regress the sequel trilogy by taking it back to safe place and retreading old ground.

Spoiler


#1944 Sir_Muffonious

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:46 PM

It was really long but I thought it was actually quite good. Way more nuanced than TFA, less like fan service despite offering plenty for fans. More confident in its style and execution, without needing to retread the same ground to convince anyone that it is what it is, which is a new Star Wars movie.

 

The worst parts were:

Spoiler

 

I think the movie's greatest contribution to the culture is how upset it's making people online.


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#1945 Ocelot

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:10 PM

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Don't worry, you guys, there's already a petition to have Episode VIII stricken from the Star Wars canon. I'm struggling to describe this in a way that doesn't involve the word 'manchildren'. It's so hard to make jokes on the modern internet because the punchline is always undercut by people actually doing that thing for real.



#1946 Sephsekla

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:33 AM

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It's both laughable and worrying at the same time. I'm seeing so much reporting that "Star wars fans hate the last Jedi."

I'm pretty sure the majority like it, or are ambivalent for totally understandable reasons.

But the narrative has become "Star wars fans hate it because it wasn't a remake of empire but where Luke pleased 6 women at once while also duelling Darth Revan and then my sonic the hedgehog OC Barry the hedgehog showed up".

What are the chances the execs will pick this up and episode 9 will be incredibly safe and by committee? Catering to the worst parts of the fanbase?

Spoiler

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
 
Except cancelling Firefly. Because that's just not cool.

#1947 Bilbo_Baggins

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:14 AM

Spoiler

 

 

 

oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

Capture.png

 

 

 



#1948 Ocelot

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:41 AM

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Spoiler

 

KATHLEEN KENNEDY'S SELF INSERT!

 

Alright, that's enough internet for me today. I will see you guys later *finger guns*

 

EDIT - *continues to brandish finger guns while walking back in* OK, just before I go for reals, I want to make it clear that implying the producer of this movie organised for an analogue of herself to be inserted into the movie for the sole purpose of making one of the male characters look worse is verging on the kind of game we don't play here at SSLF.

 

When in doubt, be Bruce Banner:

 

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*resumes finger guns while backing out again*



#1949 Sephsekla

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 04:17 AM

Spoiler

 
 
 
oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
Capture.png
 
 
 

Spoiler


And about time women actually got to do something in star wars without having to be the designated female main character.
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.
 
Except cancelling Firefly. Because that's just not cool.

#1950 Goldy

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 04:20 AM

 

 

- Doubled down on Rey's unexplained talent and ability

 

It's not unexplained, she is a force user. She learnt to fix and fly on Jakku and she learnt to fight using a staff. And before anyone points out that Luke had training - he did not have any before he blindly fired two torpedoes down the gullet of the death star using a starfighter he had never flown before. (Though in SW I think you have to accept that flying different ships is as easy as driving different cars)

 

I agree with what I have not crossed out. But, the films good parts far outweigh everything listed below. I don't think that's enough to hate the film in all honesty, your points relate to the middle part of the film which most people would also say is the weakest bit.

 

Spoiler



#1951 Sir_Muffonious

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 06:38 AM

Kathleen Kennedy is just a nasty lady coming to destroy my dad and embarrass him for all the world to see, in the name of feminism.


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#1952 Saber-Scorpion

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:38 AM

I wasn't going to post in here, but now I feel compelled to show that not everyone who hates the movie hates it because of feminism, or because they want Luke to be unstoppable, or whatever. I intensely dislike this kind of convenient dismissal of the entire fan blacklash and criticism of the movie.

 

Here is what I wrote a couple days ago but didn't post:

 

When I first heard that Disney was taking Star Wars from the clutches of George Lucas, I was thrilled. JJ Abrams had just made a Star Trek reboot that felt more like a good Star Wars movie than a Trek movie, so I was hopeful for what he would do with SW. We'd finally be getting a sequel, with the old actors coming back! I was excited!

 

If you had told me that Disney was going to

Spoiler
then I probably would not have been excited. I would have been the opposite of excited.

 

I know we're not supposed to care. I know we're not supposed to care that they erased all of Han's character development and turned him into a sad divorced dad who dies at the hands of his insane evil son. I know we're not supposed to care that

Spoiler
I know we're supposed to observe these stories like dispassionate movie critics for some reason, regarding them as "fresh" and "bold" and super awesome, because who cares if some fictional characters died?

 

But, dammit, I do care. I care that, according to these movies, the joyful ending of Return of the Jedi can never be viewed the same way again, because apparently the galaxy was almost immediately plunged right back into an even darker place than it was before Han and Luke and Leia did anything at all. I'm not asking for Luke to be totally perfect (like Rey) or for no one to ever die (a meaningful death of a major character, preferably in the third movie, could have been great), but is it too much to ask that even one thing went right? This isn't Game of Thrones; it's freaking Star Wars. When I was a kid, these stories and characters meant a lot to me.

 

I want to enjoy the new movies and the new characters; I really do. I like female heroes. I don't even care that's Rey is a huge Mary Sue - I'm perfectly willing to like her anyway. But when Disney needlessly and utterly destroys the old characters and stories that I loved, tossing them carelessly in the trash bin like rubbish to be discarded, then I can no longer enjoy the new ones. I just can't. It is not within my power.

 

A petition to make the movies non-canon is silly of course - not just because it will never happen, but because worrying about canon has always been silly. Just like the things you like and ignore the things you don't. For me, the Star Wars series ended with Return of the Jedi, just like the Alien series ended with Aliens. I don't accept that Han and Luke died like losers after watching everything they had fought for destroyed, just like I don't accept that Hicks and Newt died in their stasis pods at the beginning of Alien 3. Hollywood has proven that there will always be endless remakes, reboots, prequels, and sequels to everything until the end of time. You can't get mad at all of them.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Glad to get it off my chest, I guess.

 

Disclaimer: I have not watched Last Jedi and do not plan to. I watched TFA, and that was enough for me. EDIT: Also, for the record, I wasn't the one who edited the poll, lol.


-Scorp


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#1953 Sephsekla

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:05 AM

Someone's left the "nobody, it's the second best star wars after Empire" of the options for the new poll.
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Except cancelling Firefly. Because that's just not cool.

#1954 Phaedrus

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 10:45 AM

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Taken from a friend on Facebook:

"I feel like that scene in The Last Jedi where the one Rebel trooper tastes the ground and goes "hmm... salt" was an accurate forecast of the reception to this amazing film."

#1955 Princess Floweraven

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:47 AM

Scorp, you summed up most of my thoughts perfectly. I thank you for it.


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#1956 Sephsekla

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:20 PM

For real though, I'd like my "the movie is awesome shuddup" poll option.

I can't remember the last time a film polarised people quite so much, it's pretty amazing.
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Except cancelling Firefly. Because that's just not cool.

#1957 Darknoon

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:39 PM

I thought this film was pretty great. It wasn't perfect and it did make some mistakes, but it's definitely the most creative and intelligent and confident that Star Wars has been since TESB. And I'm finding the backlash to this film frustrating, because the nostalgia that's driving it denigrates it precisely for what makes it great: its boldness and vision

 

Bad sequels try to recreate the feel of the original film without understanding the uniqueness and creative boldness that made that film succeed. They don't grow the characters, they add nothing to the lore and mythos of their universe, and they fail to justify their existence from any critical (ie. not fan-service) perspective. Conversely, good sequels take the narrative consequences of what came before and explore these honestly, frankly and creatively, expanding on rather than merely deifying the films that came before. They have a purpose to exist outside of standing as an empty monument to the past, and are unafraid to stand beside the original film with an identity of their own.

 

What the older generation of Star Wars fans need to understand is that these new films belong to a new generation of movie-goers as much as they belong to us. These films are not The Original Trilogy Part 2, and have to tell their own stories without being limited in a narrative, dramatic or creative sense by the past. Whilst it is understandable to be protective of old characters, this is no longer their story; the Star Wars universe is bigger than three characters. If you want to see Han, Luke and Leia traipse around kicking ass and always coming out the other side unscathed, the old Legends fiction still exists. But I'd really not have wanted to see a film trilogy following this timid and self-congratulatory approach, too afraid of its own mythic status to explore, expose and challenge its fundamental assumptions. 

 

What I find really impressive is that Rian Johnson found a way to balance honouring the DNA of SW with subverting and shattering many of its tropes, in the process creating something that builds upon what came before without repeating it. He took the core concepts of Star Wars - the spirituality of the force, family and identity, the importance of balance (light/dark, impulsiveness/indecision, action/inaction), dealing with failure and rejection etc - and wasn't intent to just regurgitate them. Rather, he stripped them apart and explored them in dynamic and complex ways that the other films never did before, in the process adding the depth and nuance that will allow the universe to grow and thrive rather than stagnate and become redundant.

 

To be frank, I think this comes down to divide between those able to accept good storytelling and filmmaking on its own terms and those who want to restrict it with formula and checklists. And it is difficult to be objective with something as beloved as SW. I really can understand being protective of the OT, as they and the broader SW universe clearly held such meaning to everyone here. But the OT is still there and always will be, and I think it's frankly selfish and limiting to expect this new trilogy of films to stick to such a narrow vision of what something as expansive as broad as WARS in SPACE with magic and little green men and laser-swords should be.

 

Not gonna bother with any of the crackpot sexism. Rey is also not a Mary Sue, but people can keep throwing around that very loaded misnomer (when was the last time you saw an 80s masculine wish-fulfilment hero dismissed as a Gary Stu?) if they like.


Edited by Darknoon, 19 December 2017 - 01:41 PM.

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#1958 Darknoon

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:20 PM

@Scorp also contrast Kotor and Kotor II to TLJ and the OT. Both sequels are dark and bizarre and put the SW universe in a darker and worse place than the preceding work, despite all the sacrifice and heroism of the first part. Both absolutely intellectually destroy basic assumptions of the canon (Kotor 2 far far more so tbh) relating to morality and spirituality. And you loved one of these sequels and apparently don't the other, which is fine as you have your reasons that are clearly thought-through. Nevertheless, I really do think that when the shock and surprise of Rian Johnson's curveball wears off, you might be surprised what you'd get out of a viewing.


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#1959 Princess Floweraven

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:22 PM

> KotoR takes place before the OT and therefore does not undermine its accomplishments


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#1960 Darknoon

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:27 PM

That's not the point I was making? Kotor II undermines basically the entire heroic journey of Kotor, determined to save the Jedi and Republic, by eradicating the Jedi - in part unwittingly through the player's own actions - and decimating the Republic. There's a clear parallel to how the new Trilogy of SW has followed the ending of the OT.


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