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Game of Thrones: Chaos Is A Ramp


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#821 Phaedrus

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:02 PM

Except Avatar is baby trash

#822 God-Emperor Thrawnie

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:24 PM

Except Avatar is baby trash

3USgt2g.gif

 



#823 Ocelot

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:53 PM

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I guarantee Benioff & Weiss actually think they nailed all these things, though. Like if you asked them directly they'd tell you about mature, dark storytelling or whatever rubbish they think they're doing. David Nutter, the director of last week's episode, genuinely believes that having Jon nod at his dog from the other side of a castle was better than having him behave like a person:

 

“Keeping Ghost off to the side, I thought that played out better,” said Nutter, adding that it gave Jon a chance to be with Tormund and Gilly before having one last moment with his wolf.
 
“Then he just walks off by himself, he turns to Ghost and has this moment with Ghost that I thought was very, very powerful.”

 

Hacks, the lot of them.
 


#824 God-Emperor Thrawnie

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 11:40 PM

Isn't them not nailing those things a good thing now tho? Like I thought it was 2019 and all fictional media has to just be postmodernist expectation subversion from wall to wall.



#825 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 06:00 AM

Except Avatar is baby trash

 

If you're talking about the James Cameron movie that nobody remembers but that we're getting a million sequels to, then you'd be right.

 

At least Avatar the Last Airbender is consistently good, while Game of Thrones was apparently only good while they still had source material to go off of.

 

Isn't them not nailing those things a good thing now tho? Like I thought it was 2019 and all fictional media has to just be postmodernist expectation subversion from wall to wall.

 

Only if you're an idiot like Rian Johnson.



#826 Saber-Scorpion

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 11:43 AM

 
Forbes: It Is Now Clear That Having Two Short Final 'Game of Thrones' Seasons Was A Mistake
 

“This is the hard part of what we do,” sighs HBO programming president Michael Lombardo. “We started this journey with David and Dan. It’s their vision. Would I love the show to go 10 years as both a fan and a network executive? Absolutely…If they weren’t comfortable going beyond seven seasons, I trust them implicitly and trust that’s the right decision—as horrifying as that is to me.”


And then there’s George RR Martin, who has always thought the show was cutting too much from the books. A long time ago he said the 10 episode seasons should be more like 13, and more recently he’s said that the show could continue well, well beyond eight seasons. Here’s him at the Emmys last year:
"I don't know," Martin said. "Ask David [Benioff] and Dan [Weiss] when they come through. We could have gone to 11, 12, 13 seasons, but I guess they wanted a life.”


Sure hope GRRM finishes the books at some point.


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#827 Ocelot

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 04:54 PM

Isn't them not nailing those things a good thing now tho? Like I thought it was 2019 and all fictional media has to just be postmodernist expectation subversion from wall to wall.

 

It was subverting expectations that put ASOIAF, and by extension GOT, on the map in the first place. Expectations about what happens when the noble, morally-unshakeable Lord goes to give a piece of his mind to the corrupt leaders- oh they executed him. Oh well, that probably won't happen again. Oh look, here's a nice wedding sce- oh they just killed everyone. OK but no author would do it a thing like that aga- Jon Snow is dead.
 
By subverting already-subverted expectations, D&D have ironically flipped it all back around to just general mediocrity again. Once the show overtook the books it fell back to tried and true "good guys have plot armour and bad guys eventually get their comeuppance" stuff, with the only subversive part being how they prolonged the pre-comeuppance "bad guy being bad" phase for season after season to make it seem like they were being big mature bois.

 

Sure hope GRRM finishes the books at some point.

 

I wouldn't blame D&D for wanting to move on to other projects after making the same show for six years, particularly when they landed the Star Wars job. I definitely would blame them for tanking the show with two rushed seasons rather than just letting someone else take the job and finishing it properly, though. It just seems so bizarre. Critics and internet bores like me have been down on the show for a while, but even mainstream reactions are starting to turn sour after these last few episodes. D&D could have been out while they were still on top, carving a path through Hollywood before anyone realised they'd been failing upward all this time, HBO could have kept their golden goose unsullied, and we could have had ten or more seasons of a show that was still pretty good and didn't end with the Night King exploding in one episode and then Dany turning evil overnight.



#828 Florent

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:57 PM

I hope the best for David and Dan's Star Wars trilogy, but also hope that ASOIAF gets adapted someday eep


 

What a garbage show for trash people. Thanks I hate it. Life sucks. What's the point of anything? How many hours of my life have I spent on this sunk cost fallacy of a show?


#829 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:39 AM

I hope the best for David and Dan's Star Wars trilogy, but also hope that ASOIAF gets adapted someday eep

 

I have more hope for their Star Wars trilogy than Rian Johnson's trilogy, because hopefully enough of GRRM's writing techniques and such rubbed off on them so they could make something more intelligent.

 

I dunno about Game of Thrones though. It reminds me of the 2003 Fullmetal Alchemist Anime: good until it ran out of source material, and then it went completely off the rails. We were able to get some good stuff out of it, but for the most part it was just bizarre. The main difference is that FMA went on to have a better adaption, but I'm not sure if we'll ever have the chance to get an adaption of GOT as good as this one was, or if it is, we won't have all of these great actors that we've gotten out of this show to be in it.



#830 Ocelot

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 01:08 AM

Under 24 hours until the big one, ladies and gentlemen. The show we've been watching since 2011. Is the finale going to disappoint us? Almost certainly, but let us never forget those immortal words: You want the good TV show...

 

but you need...

 

the bad...

 

Spoiler


#831 God-Emperor Thrawnie

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:50 PM

 

 

oh and even though the "leak" for next ep is probably a joke I'm spoilering this because it's so dumb I can almost buy it:

 

Spoiler

 

:shrug:
 



#832 Florent

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 08:55 PM

My one regret is that I wasted so many hours of my life thinking about this garbage.

 

Spoiler

 

What a garbage show for trash people. Thanks I hate it. Life sucks. What's the point of anything? How many hours of my life have I spent on this sunk cost fallacy of a show?


#833 Ocelot

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 06:40 AM

Weeeeeell... I liked the first half? With large caveats. And then the last five minutes or so... not the worst? Kind of like last week's episode, if you pretend we live in a world where the character development groundwork for these last two episodes had been done better (or, y'know, at all), they could have worked really well. If a lot of what happens in the final two episodes hadn't just fallen out of the sky like a sack of narrative potatoes, and the show had had time to breathe and build up to all this stuff naturally. If, if, if.

 

I think Tyrion, Dany and Jon all turned in the performances of their career in this episode. Most of that first half is pure close up conversations, relying entirely on the actors to turn on the emoting jets, and I think they were all incredible. Tyrion with the weight of the world on his shoulders, Jon wide-eyed like a boy again, and Dany doing her eyebrow thing and looking like a completely different person. And I certainly can't fault the cinematography, either. That whole sequence of Jon trudging up the steps of an annihilated Red Keep buried under ash, and the camera following his view as he sees Dany looming above everyone, perfectly framed in front of Drogon's wings spread wide? Not exactly subtle symbolism, but boy it looked good.

 

Spoiler



#834 Florent

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 07:15 AM

Hey remember when they set up all this mysterious magic? A fully undeniably powerful fire god? Unstable decade long seasons? A full neural network of trees (or something)?, an ice kingdom for White Walkers north of the wall? The show doesn't remember. The North doesn't remember.

 

The more I think about the show, the more I feel like it was a ponzi scheme this whole time. 

 

Noun: Ponzi scheme;
A form of fraud in which belief in the success of a nonexistent enterprise is fostered by the payment of quick returns to the first investors from money invested by later investors.
"a classic Ponzi scheme built on treachery and lies"
 
-Google
 
They lure us in with the promise of intricacy and depth, then slowly dissolve every plot thread until there is no possible dramatic conclusion to any of the characters' storylines. This episode felt more like an epilogue to a long running show, but we never really got an ending. The Song of Ice and Fire (shamelessly shoved in at the last minute for no reason) wasn't finished. It doesn't even feel like there has been a story in the past few seasons. What was this about? What was the theme? What were they even trying to say? It felt like they shot a bunch of scenes with characters unrelated to each other and only ever loosely connected and just sort of stitched them together.
 
The thing is too, if this season was a standalone HBO miniseries it would be pretty good. If you ignore the decade of groundwork laid down by previous seasons and books, this season was probably pretty watchable. The problem is that it doesn't exist in a vacuum. This isn't a standalone miniseries, it's a grand finale. A big, dumb, ending where nothing makes sense and everything is disappointing. Was it bittersweet? Was it happy? Sad? Bad? Anything? But yeah, King Bran the literal "that guy" tier dude whose personality, character, and relevance was stripped away off screen three seasons ago, yeah, he's in charge now. Okay? How is that supposed to make me feel? Is he wise? Does he know a lot? What's his tax policy? He keeps telling us he can see everything and knows everything, but he never used his knowledge for any discernible cause, except maybe to seize power. Remember, he agreed to come to King's Landing (off screen) because he knew he would be elected leader (allegedly). Bran is just as self-centered and blasé as anyone else, and doesn't deserve anything. He did nothing. Literally has had no connection to the rest of the plot until the very last second where he claims it was all part of a plan (or something?) for him to become king. I don't understand. Maybe it's cause I'm not an enlightened wise old sage like Dave Benioff orDan Weiss, who are much smarter than me and wrote a story far too complex for our simple minds to comprehend. 
 
Spoiler
 
Man, I thought I was over it. Really, I did. Going in there was no malice, hatred, etc. Just disappointment and a little sadness over how much I used to care about these characters. Once I saw Arya walking around WITHOUT THAT HORSE WE SPENT LIKE 25 MINUTES WITH last episode, I lost it. I got actually angry. When I realized I put more time and effort into caring about this story than the showrunners, I felt a little betrayed. By myself surely, because they got me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, you can't fool me again. It's funny. We all thought they cut the fools out from the story, but in the end we were the fools. For even paying attention. 
 
Check please.

 

What a garbage show for trash people. Thanks I hate it. Life sucks. What's the point of anything? How many hours of my life have I spent on this sunk cost fallacy of a show?


#835 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:00 PM

As if to add insult to injury.

 

I understand that we want this show to be over as soon as possible, but come on.

 

 



#836 Ocelot

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 04:56 PM

Remember when Bran went and Warg'd into something back in episode 3, and it wasn't explained in that episode, and then it wasn't explained in episodes 4, 5 or 6 and now the show's over and it's obvious D&D just forgot about it?

 

Does anyone in the show have any reason to believe Bran actually has any kind of power in the first place? Has he ever just said, like, "OK, look out the window" and then Warg'd into a bird and made it wave hello? Because as far as I can remember, whenever anyone asks Bran what his deal is he just responds with an irritating riddle and then nobody ever follows up. Has he ever used his power for anything useful? He told everyone that the Night King was coming, and then he just sat there quietly watching them all draw up battle plans that would kill thousands of men all the while knowing that Arya could have ended it all with one Leeroy Jenkins. He revealed Jon's parentage, a plotpoint that came to absolutely nothing in the end. He presumably knew that Dany was going to slaughter a million people, but he let it happen and then joked about having had to come all the way down to King's Landing to be crowned King in the aftermath. Teehee, Bran, you are directly responsible for every preventable death in Westeros.

 

For all anyone in the show knows, Bran could just have been rolling his eyes back in his head and pretending this whole time. Remember like a week ago in TV show time when nobody in Westeros even believed in magic, and now ALL THE LORDS OF WESTEROS are unquestioningly convinced that the creepy incel Stark kid in the wheelchair not only has magic powers, but should definitely be granted power over the entire continent because of them. "Oh, he knows everything? Well, send him right on through. Someone fetch him a crown. Get out of the way, I want to bend the knee first!". 

 

At this point I'd almost rather believe the fan theory that Bran died and the Three-Eyed Raven is just driving his body around to successfully subjugate humanity, and the Night King was just trying to save us all from his evil reign.

 

Shout out to Sansa for blurting out that Bran's undercarriage doesn't work, though. In front of everyone. Entirely unprompted.

 

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#837 Ocelot

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:16 AM

GRRM has a promise:

 

But I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done.   Just so long as the acrid fumes do not screw up my old DOS word processor, I’ll be fine.

 

He's talking about an event running from July 29th to August 2nd, 2020, for reference. So there we have our first kinda sorta official date for the book, and I want to believe. I've fallen down the Youtube ASOIAF Lore hole these last few days and I am long past ready for a full re-read of the series. I know I'm being a sweet Summer child, but just let me have this hope for a day or two.



#838 God-Emperor Thrawnie

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 02:16 PM

The fact that he suddenly went from "done when it's done" to "it'll be done by [SPECIFIC DATE]" the second the show ended kinda lends some credence to the rumor that part of his contract with HBO prevented him from releasing any more books until the series ended.



#839 Ocelot

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 05:57 PM

If nothing else, the reception to Game of Thrones should assuage any concerns he has about everyone hating the book. I mean, some people are definitely going to hate it, that's just the world we live in, but only the hottest of takes are going to be "OMG, worse than the show!". I feel like D&D have set up GRRM for a "Well at least it wasn't as bad as GOT" consensus at the absolute worst.






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