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#2141 broons

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 05:48 PM

Calm down now, kids. It's just a movie.

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#2142 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:35 PM

Dalton, nobody's asking you to love the characters just because of their race or gender. If that's your immediate knee jerk reaction it tbh says more about you than the films. They're different races or different genders because, you know what? So is the world.

It frustrates me when the term Mary Sue gets thrown around, because it strangely enough never gets used to describe guys. Almost like it's steeped in this sexist bull that women can't be talented.

Rey has so many failures of character and action, and the things she excels at are no more outlandish than Anakin or Luke "Had an afternoon of training" Skywalker.

Finn has a great character arc over two films, from his desperation to run away to his heroism approaching things on later.

All of the most beloved Star Wars characters were at one point unknown to us, that's how characters work. We should embrace the new characters and opportunities, not try and drag them down because they're not Luke.

 

Seph, the reason why that's my knee-jerk reaction is because it's Disney's knee-jerk defense for anything concerning the Last Jedi. Just look at Ryan Johnson's response to what happened to Kelly: They seem to equate criticisms of their characters with people hating them just because they are white men, and it's infuriating to me. 

 

You seem to continue to miss the point with me talking about Rey. The argument about her being a Mary Sue was easy to make before, because she hadn't gone through any challenges yet. Of course you can make the same argument about Luke or Anakin: both go from Mary Sues to being actual characters who do genuinely cool stuff all the time because they've become real protagonists. A Mary sue is a horrible type of character to have: I know because I have a 351 Page comic about one. Rey has moved past criticisms like this in my opinion: she's earned my respect. It's easy to use the term Mary Sue for a female character because its easy for creators to just create a strong, flawless, independent, female character and expect people to root for them for only that reason. I could rattle off a list of female characters that I enjoy, not only because they're strong, but because they're well written. But since everyone who reads the posts I've made only reads it as me being a sexist a-hole, you can sum up what I say right here:

 

I LIKE REY NOW, SO STOP BOTHERING ME ABOUT THIS MARY SUE BULLS*** THAT YOU GUYS BLEW OUT OF PROPORTION 

 

I do like Finn's storyline, but in the Last Jedi the majority of his scenes are pointless in the long run, which is dumb. A redemptive character is really appealing to me: Zuko from ATLA is the big examples of this, so it's kind of sad to see that a really good storyline is shunted to the side like that.

 

I agree with you on this last point. I am sorry for lashing out at them: it was more in reaction to Florent's original post than anything else.

 

 

Literally don't have any idea how you got that from what I wrote but it's k. Prolly my last post on this for a while, I said what I wanted to say.

Star Wars has exhausted it's old characters. It's time for something new, because the past 40 years have been recycling old themes and characters ad infinitum. Boba Fett is played out, there's a lot of room for growth once you stop locking yourself into the same 6-10 characters for decades.

 

I should thank you: you've summed up everything that infuriated me in your original post.

 

You entire post is just a gigantic rant about how I should stop caring about Star Wars Characters I enjoy, because 'Star Wars isn't for me anymore' and that world-building 'sucks the life out of a universe.' Logic like this infuriates me so much that I want to punch my keyboard through my screen.

 

Disney has done some fantastic things with these 'old characters' you seem to hate so much: the five issue Darth Maul mini-series was a cool idea, the 2015 Darth Vader comic was amazing from start to finish and the new one keeps me more and more interested with every issue, and that Mace Windu one was really good because it showed me a lot about a character I didn't know a lot about. A lot of these new books about 'old characters' have been interesting too, although I haven't read as many as I would like. Unfortunately, a lot of this creativity doesn't translate well into the stand-alone Star Wars films, because Rouge One was a horrible movie to lead with. It was a good idea, but you can't really get to care about characters who are all dead by the time the movie ends. Honestly, Han Solo was never really my favorite character, so it doesn't really make sense to make a solo film about him besides an obvious pun, but it doesn't mean it's not a bad idea. You seem to think that there's no possibility for new, creative ideas, but I disagree: Disney could make an Obi-wan movie or Boba Fett movie into something amazing by bringing creative people into making them. Kenobi is one of my favorite Star Wars novels, and I'd love to see a western style movie featuring him; it would be harder to do something cool with Boba that hasn't been done before, but it would be interesting to see something about him being a bad@$$ with a code of honor, like from that clip from the unfinished Clone Wars episodes. However, in your post, you essentially take a gigantic dump on these ideas because you don't see any potential in them, and demonize anyone who thinks otherwise.

 

The part that infuriates me more now that I think about it is you s***-talking world-building. As somebody who is in the process of creating their own fantasy universe, I really appreciate world-building in any form, even if it's flawed. J.R.R. Tolkien continued to create his universe until the day he died: would you complain about that? Every month or so, Wolfy releases an update to Wulgard Lore or races: would you complain like that? I love world-building: it fleshes out your universe and helps it stand on its feet. Something like LotR, Star Wars, and even Marvel to a certain extent, do this to make their universe seem more realistic, or so that they can try new things. Does it always work? No, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it at all.

 

The thing that I hate the most is everyone coming out of the woodwork to agree with you. Everybody now seems ready to just pitch out stuff that they used to care about just because we have something new to like, and this mindset is stupid. It's like saying I should abandon the Lord of the Rings movies because we have the Hobbit movies. Disney's new characters have done some interesting things: the first story-line in the Doctor Aphra series is awesome, and I haven't read too much of the Poe Dameron comic but what I have is good. But expecting me to only care about the new characters and abandon the old ones is dumb. Disney should try to be creative with characters like Obi-wan or Boba fett, because breathing new life into a character like that (i.e. ACTUALLY USING THEM IN CANON) could revive interesting them. They might be able to do something new with these characters, but people like you think that they shouldn't bother putting in the effort because apparently 'they've exhausted all ideas for stories with these characters' is insulting to me.



#2143 Ocelot

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 11:55 PM

Hey guys it sounds like Keri Russell and Billy Dee Williams are going to be in Episode IX.



#2144 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:11 AM

I don't know who Keri Russell is, but I'm glad Billy will be back for the Last film. Somehow, Lando has become one of my favorite Star Wars Characters, and I think that this scene from the Lego movie might be to blame.



#2145 Patriot 96

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:06 AM

One idea that I've seen with regards to Episode 9 is that it could take place years after the other two sequels. This could be important for a number of reasons:

 

1. Rey could actually have gained some experience. You wouldn't know from the movies but Luke trained for years under Yoda in between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. They could have some really cool moment where Rey comes back from Ach Too as a fully trained and skilled Jedi, rather than a powerful but untrained force user.

2. It could explain why Leia isn't present. Lucas film has already hinted through the comics that Leia is dying, and it would be the simplest in-universe way to deal with Carrie Fisher's passing.

3. Finn, Poe, and Rose could actually be Rebel heroes. During the time between the movies, which could be explained in books, tv shows, comics, etc. the protagonists of the Sequel trilogy could undertake missions that solidify their status as heroes. Marvel is already doing a great job of this with their main Star Wars comics, which are set between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, where we see Luke and Han go from having fought one battle to being some of the best Rebel operatives in the Alliance.

 

Just a note, I'm calling them the Rebels rather than the Resistance because that's clearly what the end of the Last Jedi was implying.



#2146 Ocelot

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 01:59 AM

One nice idea I saw somewhere was having the movie open with Lando delivering Leia's eulogy at a funeral with all the Rebels attending, and then they could cut to Supreme Leader Kylo across the galaxy struggling with his emotions.

 

And, yeah, it seems really likely they'll do some kind of significant time skip between VIII and IX. TLJ ends with Rey having no lightsabre, but a drawer full of the sacred texts that she can study Jedi-ing from.



#2147 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:57 AM

Here are some things that I'd like to see in the next movie:

 

1. No redemption arc for Kylo Ren. His character arc from whiny apprentice to bad@$$ Supreme Leader was one of the best things to come out of the Last Jedi. It's like one of those pretty frequent what-ifs from any Vader related thing where he thinks about killing Palpatine and becoming Emperor, only Kylo Ren has the guts to actually carry it through. I really hope they don't throw that away in Episode IX.

 

2. DO NOT BRING BACK PHASMA AGAIN. You didn't use her well in Episode VII, you barely used her at all in Episode VIII, so don't bring her back again in Episode IX. Gwendolyn Christie has done much better in other things, like Game of Thrones, so stop trying to bring her back for five seconds in each movie. She is there for no other reason than to be the new Boba Fett, but the only problem is that Boba Fett actually did stuff in the movies, while Phasma is there just to look cool. Boba Fett is not cool based only off of what he looks like, but what he does: its why the Phasma books and comics staring her are better than her on screen appearances.

 

3. This is a total pipe dream, and there is no chance of this happening, but I'd like to see Boba be in this film. I'd like to see kind of like a grizzled old man bounty hunter, which, yes, we've seen before in the old canon, but not really to a great extent. Maybe him and Lando can team up and do stuff together.

 

4. I love to see Force Ghost Luke show up, since he's the only original cast member who can feasibly come back for the last film. I would also like to see Snoke come back as well, not as a force ghost (since Sith aren't supposed to be able to do that) but as some sort of dark side spirit like Darth Bane from the Clone Wars. I would love to potentially see Snoke and his mother dying driving Kylo in a futher downward spiral into the dark side.

 

5. Please do something cool with the Knight of Ren before you kill them off. I like the fact that Rian Johnson didn't do anything with them, because supposedly he used the Praetorian Guard instead of them, so J.J. or whoever is making the next film better top that action scene if you're going to kill them off like that, or at least answer some questions we have about them before you do.



#2148 Patriot 96

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:18 AM

 

4. I love to see Force Ghost Luke show up, since he's the only original cast member who can feasibly come back for the last film. I would also like to see Snoke come back as well, not as a force ghost (since Sith aren't supposed to be able to do that) but as some sort of dark side spirit like Darth Bane from the Clone Wars. I would love to potentially see Snoke and his mother dying driving Kylo in a futher downward spiral into the dark side.

 

 

Oh they have to. Luke fading away at death is a clearcut sign of Force Ghost (the only reason you don't see Anakin disappear is that the armor didn't go with him, so when Luke burned it he was simply burning a suit of armor.) While Luke may have not undergone the training required to become a Force Ghost Yoda, Obi Wan, and Anakin may have helped with that.



#2149 broons

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 11:30 AM

They really don't need to find a way to shoehorn an ancient Boba Fett into 9. Like come on. Theres absolutely no reason to do that except to fulfill fanboy fantasies.

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#2150 Patriot 96

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 01:00 PM

They really don't need to find a way to shoehorn an ancient Boba Fett into 9. Like come on. Theres absolutely no reason to do that except to fulfill fanboy fantasies.

 

Technically they could, he'd be only around 66. The movies clearly state that Boba Fett is unaltered, meaning he won't die in his 40s like all of the other surviving clones.That said I agree that they should not include him, at least as a Bounty Hunter. I could see a situation where he acts as a sort of Crime Lord or the head of a Bounty Hunter's Guild. Just hopefully not as an active mercenary.



#2151 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:33 PM

 I could see a situation where he acts as a sort of Crime Lord or the head of a Bounty Hunter's Guild. 

 

That's kind of what I meant by him and Lando doing stuff. I'd love to see him be a grizzled old man who's tired of being a Merc who lets the world thinks he's dead or something.

 

Then I just realized that I was talking about Luke, so...



#2152 Ocelot

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 01:08 AM

Did somebody say Episode IX hopes and wishes?

 

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- Ghost Luke is a 100%, done deal, sure thing, supermax prison electronic LOCK, and it always has been. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise, to be honest. That's what Jedi do, they turn into ghosts and give fatherly advice. Or, in Kylo's case, salt in the wound from beyond the grave. "Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you". Luke's going to be flitting between imparting knowledge to Rey on one side of the galaxy and roasting Kylo from beyond the grave on the other. 

 

- Rey makes a cool new lightsabre. Maybe it's a new colour, maybe she builds it into the end of her staff, I don't know, but it's Star Wars law that she has to have a cool new one. Also she needs a cool new Jedi Knight outfit. And a new hairstyle. 

 

- Supreme Leader Kylo Ren sits on his throne, totally unsatisfied with power, hated by his underlings, fending off constant assassination and coup attempts, growing ever more angry, petulant and unstable. He's made his bed and now he has to sleep in it. Stew in it. He won't admit it to himself, but it needs to be clear that he made the wrong choice by not going with Rey in TLJ.

 

- More Porgs.

 

- The legend of Luke Skywalker facing down the First Order all by his lonesome spreads throughout the galaxy, the Rebellion is born again, meaning lots of new soldiers and spaceships for big pew pew space battles. Finn and Rose are big heroes, Finn's leading a troop of commandos or something, Poe's grown a cool beard and is one of the Generals leading everything.

 

- I don't know what I want them to do with the Knights of Ren, other than a cool fight scene. I've seen suggestions that maybe Rey will train her own little group of young Jedi to go toe-to-toe with them, but I don't really like that because it'd be too many new characters to introduce in the last movie of a trilogy (it could still work, though). I kind of like imagining Rey just cutting them all down in a glorious one-shot fight scene, but then we're getting back to the idea of Jedi not being about carving dudes up. Yeah, I don't know. As long as they actually show up and there's a cool fight, I'll be happy :P

 

- I don't know what I want them to do with Kylo in the end, either, but I can't wait to see it. The thing is, Rey has to at least try to turn him good. If Darth Vader wasn't beyond redemption then Kylo can't be either. Rey wouldn't be doing her Jedi job if she just showed up spoiling for a fight; she's seen the good in him. But I think it would be interesting if it was actually Kylo who came to her, or at least wasn't just sitting on his throne waiting for a fight when she walks in the door.

 

OK, y'know what, I just thought of something. Imagine Kylo at the bridge of his Super Mega Star Destroyer, the last of the Rebel fleet on the ropes, and he's ready to push the big red button that blows them all up once and for all. But the emotions we've seen him struggle with all through the movie have reached fever pitch (maybe he met Rey earlier and she said something that stuck with him). He doesn't press the button. His men turn on him once and for all. He cuts down Hux and whatever other officers are in the room, but then the Knights of Ren come running and he has to fight them himself. And then, I don't know, maybe Rey bursts in the room and understands that he's turned good, but she arrives just in time to see him take a mortal blow as he kills his last Knight. We get a scene that mirrors the "Come with me" scene from TLJ, only this time Kylo wants to go with her but he can't because he's about to die in a pool of his own blood. Poetic irony, reap what you sow, all that good stuff. Rey is overcome with complex feelings, because she knows he could have been good in another life, but at the same time he 100% deserves this.

 

- Right before Rey's story ends, Darth Maul's Force Ghost shows up via hologram and calls her away



#2153 Patriot 96

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 12:38 PM

 

- Ghost Luke is a 100%, done deal, sure thing, supermax prison electronic LOCK, and it always has been. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise, to be honest. That's what Jedi do, they turn into ghosts and give fatherly advice. Or, in Kylo's case, salt in the wound from beyond the grave. "Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you". Luke's going to be flitting between imparting knowledge to Rey on one side of the galaxy and roasting Kylo from beyond the grave on the other. 

 

 

Force Ghost trolling please Disney. Make it happen.



#2154 Dalton Westmoore

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 06:40 PM

Maybe something along these lines:

 



#2155 Ocelot

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:55 PM

Don't worry, guys: the glue that held the Resistance together, Snap Wexley, is back for Episode IX.



#2156 Patriot 96

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 09:10 AM

Oh by the way, CLONE WARS IS RETURNING FOR A LAST SEASON.

 

 

#CLONEWARSSAVED



#2157 Ocelot

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Posted 24 July 2018 - 11:26 PM

Hey you guys I hacked into Kathleen Kennedy's private server and found some footage from the new Obi Wan movie:

 



#2158 Randomman96

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 06:46 PM

Not going to lie, little disappointed that I'M the one who is dropping this.  

 

Episode IX's casting has been announced.  The unsurprising ones of Daisy Ridley, Oscar Issac, Adam Driver, and John Boyega are all in there, plus the new arrivals.  As well as the return of Billy Dee Williams as Lando.  But there were two names that stick out.  

 

Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher.  

 

Seems we're getting a Force Ghost Luke, likely as a trainer for Rey and a tormentor of Kylo. But Fisher...   

 

Well, I'll just let the quote speak for itself.  

 

 

The role of Leia Organa will once again be played by Carrie Fisher, using previously unreleased footage shot for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. “We desperately loved Carrie Fisher,” says Abrams. “Finding a truly satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker saga without her eluded us. We were never going to recast, or use a CG character. With the support and blessing from her daughter, Billie, we have found a way to honor Carrie’s legacy and role as Leia in Episode IX by using unseen footage we shot together in Episode VII.”

 

 

Also surprisingly, looks like Phasma isn't returning given the lack that Gwendoline Christie was left out of the list of returning characters.  Guess someone's actually staying dead this time.


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#2159 Ocelot

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Posted 28 July 2018 - 06:02 AM

Not going to lie, little disappointed that I'M the one who is dropping this.  

 

I swear I was just coming to post it :P

 

As expected, Ghost Luke is a lock, and all our favourites are back. The internet is already alight with theories about Keri Russell being Rey's mum/Future Rey, of course, but I think the safe money is on both Russell and Richard E. Grant just being Rebellion/First Order side characters ala Admiral Holdo. I'm not familiar with Naomi Ackie, but she seems cool:

 

 

I don't know what to think about Leia being brought back through archival footage; it's definitely not what I expected. I can definitely respect the notion of honouring Carrie by doing something more with Leia than just "She died off-screen", and at this point I trust they can pull it off without making it look weird. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they do.



#2160 Ocelot

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 11:02 PM

Jar Jar Abrams Tweets the first set photo from Jar Jwars Episode IX: A Jark of Hopeydey:

 

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I see Finn sitting behind someone in a spaceship. Rey or Rose maybe?






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