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#41 Rickard the Bearded

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:15 PM

He created the most tragic fate imaginable for Donna.

Myself? I just thought it was a Diabolus Ex Machina. And kind of pointless at that. Honestly, Davies, Doctor Who is not Heroes. There's no need for the angst brigade every 2 episodes.

And speaking of endings, the ending of Davies' run more-or less solidified my reason for preferring Eccelston over Tennent. Don't get me wrong, I love 10 (Well, except for the part where Mr. Russel keeps trying to turn him into Jesus.), but his regeneration? Suuuuuuucked. Let's have a retrospective.

Nine: Develops from a shell-shocked war veteran into a someone completely satisfied with his actions, no regrets at all, and goes out with a smile and a witty one liner.

Ten: Goes on and on about he really does not want to die. And stays that way. And then... 'I don't want to go... *Regeneration*'

Edit: (Now that I think about it, most of the Davies-written episodes sucked (The low-blow being, of course, the abomination that is Love and Monsters.) Most of the memoriable, much-loved episodes, like Blink and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead? Written by the Grand Moff himself.)

Edited by Richard, 24 April 2011 - 07:19 PM.

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#42 Squirrel

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:19 PM

That's what i htought. SO what about the creepy as hell episode with the stone angels? Post pandorica River encountered a crack.

Eh. The timey wimey ball normally solves inconsistencies like that. Just to double check, I'll send an email to a friend of mine. He keeps better track of these things than me. :P


EDIT:

Edit: (Now that I think about it, most of the Davies-written episodes sucked (The low-blow being, of course, the abomination that is Love and Monsters.) Most of the memoriable, much-loved episodes, like Blink and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead? Written by the Grand Moff himself.)

Damn right. That was why I was so pleased Moff was taking over from Davies. he also wrote The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances from #9's era. Very awesome. Very chilling episodes. Moff created both 'Are you my mummy?' and 'Hey! Who turned out the lights?'. (Who wanted #11 to say that when he put the space suit helmet on in Astronaut? I sure did! :P)

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#43 Squirrel

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:24 PM

Double post. Woops. Misclick!

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#44 Sniper-Serpent

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 07:58 PM

I would have been saddened if he said: Hey: who turned of the lights for 2 reasons. 1, I feel sorry for that guy, and 2, it would have been out of character, him making a mockery out of someone's memory just for a joke nobody would get. (in universe)
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#45 Golden-Star

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:00 PM

(Who wanted #11 to say that when he put the space suit helmet on in Astronaut? I sure did! :P)


#12 technically. Ecclescake was #9, McTennant was #10 & #11 and so Smithy is #12.


But yeah, Moffat is probably the best DW writer there is.


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#46 Squirrel

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:03 PM

#12 technically. Ecclescake was #9, McTennant was #10 & #11 and so Smithy is #12.

The number is which Doctor he is. Tennant was #10 and number 10 only.


Anyway, Horsey-Sword:

The cracks ARE independent of time - in one universe: the universe that the Doctor travels in prior to "The Big Bang". After this episode (from River's point of view) there are TWO Rivers: one who only remembers the cracks and can no longer experience them (and turns up at Amy's wedding); and one who still lives in the universe with the cracks. She knows that the Doctor has solved the cracks, but she also knows that he can't solve them without the events of Flesh and Stone.
For the purposes of the 'Whoniverse', there are two universes (okay, there are infinite, but there are two). From 1963-2010 we stay in one universe (mostly), and from the end of "The Big Bang" onwards we follow a TARDIS team who remember something (the cracks) that never existed in their universe. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.


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#47 Rickard the Bearded

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:03 PM

#12 technically. Ecclescake was #9, McTennant was #10 & #11 and so Smithy is #12.

Wait, what? Are you talking about that *cringe* stupid Half-Human Doctor who's only reason for being there was for Rose to get a oh sooo wovewy one true love the Doctor (AKA, every single Mary Sue story EVAR)?

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#48 Squirrel

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:04 PM

Wait, what? Are you talking about that *cringe* stupid Half-Human Doctor who's only reason for being there was for Rose to get a oh sooo wovewy one true love the Doctor (AKA, every single Mary Sue story EVAR)?

Besides, that was the Doctor-Donna anyway. Not the Doctor. :) Tennant was #10 doctor and (Thankfully) the one and only Doctor-Donna/Timelord-Human.

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#49 Flying Ace

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:11 PM

wow... despite the lack of any evidence whatsoever, I find myself believing that. But how could she then act normally towards the Doctor when they meet for the last/first time in Silence in the Library? And that saving humanity thing sounds good as well. It would be such a Doctor thing to do: killing himself to save humanity.


Well, she has to end up in prison somehow. In Series 5 she tells Amy that she kills someone who the universe loves and who she loves more than anything. The good ol' Doctor fits the bill. This is the first episode where the Doctor is actually dead (Though I'm sure we'll discover some interesting trick he did to escape death). While it isn't a perfect guess, it can only be River Song who kills him.

Either that or he is using his death to make sure his companions will go and fight the Silence. Afterall, he is ~1100 and the 'alive' Doctor is 909. That means that the ~1100 Doctor knew about the Silence and that they were near-impossible to fight. (Fight something you can't remember?) So maybe his death will provide some kind of drive to keep his friends sane as they battle the Silence.

Now comes the little girl... She has been put inside the spaceman suit by the Silence for sure. As the Doctor said: "What if it really did eat her?" But why? Probably because shesaw them and doesn't forget? Why does the phone, which is cut, call the President wherever he goes? So far we know that "it's a trap!" set by the Silence. But that brings the question: What is so important about Space, 1969?

Amy's bullets won't put a dent into the suit. According to a Google search which led to Space By CAROLE STOTT, "The outer-layer [of the spacesuit] is a blend of waterproof, bulletproof, and fire-resistant fabrics" (26). But that might not cover the Apollo 11 suits which are no waterproof. Thus they are probably not bulletproof. But they are thick...

Now I'm just ranting... I gotta stop reading Sherlock Holmes stories everyday.

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#50 Squirrel

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:32 PM

Well, she has to end up in prison somehow. In Series 5 she tells Amy that she kills someone who the universe loves and who she loves more than anything. The good ol' Doctor fits the bill. This is the first episode where the Doctor is actually dead (Though I'm sure we'll discover some interesting trick he did to escape death). While it isn't a perfect guess, it can only be River Song who kills him.

One problem: River says she is in prison for killing someone the universe loves and who she loves more than anything. She's in prison already, and knows why she is in prison, yet, from her perspective, she hasn't killed the Doctor.

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#51 Golden-Star

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:42 PM

The number is which Doctor he is. Tennant was #10 and number 10 only.

Wait, what? Are you talking about that *cringe* stupid Half-Human Doctor who's only reason for being there was for Rose to get a oh sooo wovewy one true love the Doctor (AKA, every single Mary Sue story EVAR)?


I wasn't talking about that. That weird Doctor-thing doesn't deserve a look in. I'm talking about the amount of lives the Doctor has used. Tennant was #10, but then he was exterminated and died, using up another life. Even though he managed to keep the same shape, he still used up another life. Therefore Matt Smith is numero 12.


Well, she has to end up in prison somehow. In Series 5 she tells Amy that she kills someone who the universe loves and who she loves more than anything. The good ol' Doctor fits the bill. This is the first episode where the Doctor is actually dead (Though I'm sure we'll discover some interesting trick he did to escape death). While it isn't a perfect guess, it can only be River Song who kills him.

Either that or he is using his death to make sure his companions will go and fight the Silence. Afterall, he is ~1100 and the 'alive' Doctor is 909. That means that the ~1100 Doctor knew about the Silence and that they were near-impossible to fight. (Fight something you can't remember?) So maybe his death will provide some kind of drive to keep his friends sane as they battle the Silence.

Now comes the little girl... She has been put inside the spaceman suit by the Silence for sure. As the Doctor said: "What if it really did eat her?" But why? Probably because shesaw them and doesn't forget? Why does the phone, which is cut, call the President wherever he goes? So far we know that "it's a trap!" set by the Silence. But that brings the question: What is so important about Space, 1969?

Amy's bullets won't put a dent into the suit. According to a Google search which led to Space By CAROLE STOTT, "The outer-layer [of the spacesuit] is a blend of waterproof, bulletproof, and fire-resistant fabrics" (26). But that might not cover the Apollo 11 suits which are no waterproof. Thus they are probably not bulletproof. But they are thick...

Now I'm just ranting... I gotta stop reading Sherlock Holmes stories everyday.


Oh right. I understand now. You, sir, are a genius.



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#52 Flying Ace

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:52 PM

@ Golden-Star, but Matt Smith is officially referred to as the Eleventh Doctor. The crew probably count a body as a life instead of a life. Same body, still one life. Or something like that...

One problem: River says she is in prison for killing someone the universe loves and who she loves more than anything. She's in prison already, and knows why she is in prison, yet, from her perspective, she hasn't killed the Doctor.


Ah. Forgot about that bit. Time-travel is a bit disorientating... That and she is also looking for a way to kill the killer. Good catch, Squirrel.

Or what if she time-traveled back to kill the Doctor at his request? But that still doesn't explain the suit and all that. Maybe it is someone he knows but the rest don't. Maybe the little girl is all grown up. Hmmm...

So when will we find out when she kills him? They constantly refer to the date but never seem to actually get around to doing it.

But wait. She said they are traveling in opposite directions. So, she dies during the 10th Doctor which fits her current statement of "I'll meet him and he won't know me. It'll kill me." But, that also means vice versa, where the Doctor knows all about her but she doesn't know him. She also mentioned that the Doctor came into and her life and how that detsroys a girl, much like Amy. Following that route gives us an idea when she might kill the Doctor: Sometime early in their meetings. Which safely puts that near the end of the Series 6 if not into Series 7.

I am twitching to see the next episode and it is driving me nuts... I forgot that's why I refused to watch two-part episodes until the second aired and watch them together. Keeps my life less stressful. :P

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#53 Sniper-Serpent

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:54 PM

Wait, If the dr's final death is the 11th, then why would river need a spotting guide. She only met the 11th at this point, and will only meet 11th and 10th
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#54 Nemesis

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:57 PM

Wait, If the dr's final death is the 11th, then why would river need a spotting guide. She only met the 11th at this point, and will only meet 11th and 10th

Yeah, but it's kind of obvious that the Doctor isn't dead. Well, he is, but I'm pretty sure he'll come back somehow. Like I said, it's been done before. Timelords have thirteen lives, and as long as there's money to be made, the Doctor isn't going to be killed off any time before he's used up all of them.

Also, when was it that Tennant died but didn't regenerate? I can't seem to remember that.
...I really need to think up something witty to put here.

#55 Rune Walsh

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:05 AM

Also, when was it that Tennant died but didn't regenerate? I can't seem to remember that.


The Stolen Earth(Or whatever part 2 was called), Series 4 finale. He was zapped by a Dalek and had to regenerate, but he kept his current form by transferring the energy into his severed hand.

#56 Rickard the Bearded

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 09:48 AM

Timelords have thirteen lives,

That's shaky at best. No one in the new series has really referred to the number of lives Time Lords have, or if they even have a limit. Best to just take it as they go, etc.

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#57 Nemesis

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:06 PM

That's shaky at best. No one in the new series has really referred to the number of lives Time Lords have, or if they even have a limit. Best to just take it as they go, etc.

Yeah, I suppose. I was going on the basis that since they hadn't mentioned it, it was the same as it was in the pre-Eccleson era.
...I really need to think up something witty to put here.

#58 Squirrel

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:07 AM

Yeah, I suppose. I was going on the basis that since they hadn't mentioned it, it was the same as it was in the pre-Eccleson era.

They'll find a way around it. The solution will be cheesy and awful, but we will love it nonetheless because it gives us more Doctor Who.

It's a shame they've gone through two Doctors in only 4 series. Tom Baker starred in 172 episodes! I hope Matt Smith will stick around longer than Tennant, partly because I like him as the Doctor, but also because I think we need just the one for a bit longer.

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#59 Darkwoods

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 06:41 AM

I hope Matt Smith will stick around longer than Tennant, partly because I like him as the Doctor, but also because I think we need just the one for a bit longer.

The problem with David Tennant was that Doctor Who kind of made him famous. After his first season, it was like everyone wanted him in their drama/film/play, so on, so forth. I personally would've liked to have seen Eccleston stick around for a bit longer. It was nice to see him play the hero, whereas he's usually cast as the villain (Gone in Sixty Seconds, 28 Days Later, G.I Joe...)
As for Matt Smith, at first I hated him. He was too bouncy, too geeky, too eccentric. But now he's settled into the role, he's funny and comfortable playing the Doctor in his own way.
Just a note on the amount of lives a Time Lord has: I heard it was fifteen, but at the rate the BBC is burning through actors, it's probably a lot more.

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#60 Nemesis

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 01:21 AM

Just a note on the amount of lives a Time Lord has: I heard it was fifteen, but at the rate the BBC is burning through actors, it's probably a lot more.

Skip to about 1:40. This is back in 1996, since then, the Master has made two appearances that I can think of. They'll do the same with the Doctor, I'm sure. The fans get more Doctors, the BBC don't have to explain why the amount of lives a Timelord has has risen. It's a win/win.
...I really need to think up something witty to put here.




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